Marines charged in Haditha killings
It really sucks, but you liberals who hate Bush and react with glee at every piece of negative news out of Iraq, remember:
They have been charged. There has not been a court martial yet. They have not yet been found guilty. They may yet be proven innocent, or innocent due to the extenuating circumstances.
I’m not a legal scholar, so I don’t know how you go about proving that “unpremeditated murder” in wartime, especially given the circumstances, was such a vicious act that the punishment for a guilty verdict is life in prison.
Personally, my sentiments are with the Marines. I’m sorrowful over the dead Iraqis. It’s not anything I can imagine. But those Marines are there doing the most difficult, most dangerous job in the world. They deserve our support. They’ve more than earned it.
Posted by Big Mo
December 22nd, 2006 at 10:00 am
It’s because, Big Mo, they have changed the rules of engagement so as to make it impossible for any troop to determine if they have a direct threat against them, i.e. if the enemy is trying to kill them on purpose or not. They have to consult JAG and if they are in a situation where a decision must be made to kill or be killed they don’t have the time to wait for JAG to get the request and send an answer back to them.
Let the soldiers and Marines be soldiers and Marines and do what they were trained to do. Get the obstacles out of their way and they will win. Obstacles being the civilians.
December 22nd, 2006 at 10:32 am
The Geneva convention do not apply when we are fighting an unorganized and not state sponsered terrorists.
This is very chilling. If that is what is going to happen in these kind of conflicts, we will never win another war.
December 22nd, 2006 at 10:34 am
I’m sorry, but I don’t think they deserve either our support or condemnation. What they deserve is the presumption of innocence and an openminded attitude concerning the alleged crime. I wonder what they are really charged with? Unpremeditated murder would be manslaughter under civil laws.
December 22nd, 2006 at 10:38 am
DM,
they deserve our support, either way.
December 22nd, 2006 at 11:41 am
I got out of the Marine Corps last year, and I was relatively lucky as I only went over once… then again, I felt like an absolutely terrible Marine since my room mate had gone 4 times in that span.
It makes me absolutely furious when charges like this are brought, because as you said they have changed the RoE so many times as to make patrols almost useless.
I mean, if you want to see the true results of what happens when you take away Marines’ ability to fight, take a look at Beirut in 1983… My friend’s father was there, and he told us that his unit was so concerned with Marines initiating violence, that they made them remove their firing pins. Now, I was an armorer and I worked on .50 cal machine guns and m-16’s all day… but it would stll take me probably 30 seconds to remove the bolt housing group and reinsert the firing pin, load, and aim.
They should leave these boys alone, let them fight the war, and give them a chance to survive.
December 22nd, 2006 at 11:43 am
Thank you for your service, Chris.
December 22nd, 2006 at 12:04 pm
Thanks, Chris, for your service.
You are absolutely right. The ROE’s are causing us loss of life and the ability to win wars.
I pray that these Marines will be exhonerated, which I believe they will be. I am one of their peers and if I were sitting on the CM board, they would be.
December 22nd, 2006 at 12:17 pm
RP,
I’m pretty sure the Geneva Conventions do apply, however, to civilians who are actually civilians.
I tend to agree with David. I’m devastated that such brave men are faced with this terrible crime, but I am equally disturbed over the reported number of innocent Iraqis killed, and all the families of those who must be just as devastated, if not moreso. They deserve the presumption of innocence — and they will get that in the military, where I am sure the jury of officers will understand the concept of “heat of the moment” in wartime. We should be thankful that we do not, as we all know the Democrats would love, try these matters in common trials, or international courts.
In any event, this is the consequence of our times, and our weak-minded post-Vietnam obsession with a politically correct, “clean” war. I blame the liberals of the 60’s and 70’s, President Bush, and each of his contemporary politicians for pushing that on us. War is not clean, soldiers are not perfect. If you send them into a battlefield, given that they are trained to kill with unequaled efficiency, I think YOU, the politician, should take responsibility for collateral damage.
I recall the first or second chapter of Clausewitz’s “On War,” where he — I’m paraphrasing — talks about the need to keep your blade sharp in times of peace, and sharp and merciless in times of war; for when you fail to do either, an enemy invariably shall come along with the will you lack, and cut your throat in your idleness.
We are becoming weaker and weaker in will, and terrorists perfectly represent the enemy with no hesitation. I have no doubt that because we fought these scalpel-strike wars, we’ll face another 9/11. If we insist on the same after that, and after the next dozen attacks, I have no doubt that the terrorists will win, and America will fold.
December 22nd, 2006 at 12:21 pm
When terrorists hide behind civilians and put them in harms way, which is what happens here, the deaths are fault of the terrorists, and not our servicemen. We should adapt the Clausewitz method , then they will fear us more than the terrorists, and that will bring an end to this.
December 22nd, 2006 at 12:29 pm
I agree, RP. And if terrorists were among those in the houses, the marines are perfectly justified in taking out the lot of them.
If Clausewitz or Napoleon were running this war, we’d have already won. They were both realists, well aware of the nature of war — ugly, brutal, bloody. And they, unlike our modern politicians, were comfortable with that reality, and didn’t dance around it like fools.
(The liberals would have tried them for war crimes shortly after the victory, but they would have had that victory.)
December 22nd, 2006 at 1:50 pm
As long as they continue to hide in mosques, hospitals, and schools, this is bound to keep happening. You never know who you can trust over there, and if that fact were a little better reported, this case may not even have become an issue.
December 22nd, 2006 at 2:24 pm
Watch how the MSM drools over this story like bulldogs in heat. If ever you doubted their allegiance — or at least complacency — toward the terrorists, you’ll have your proof as this case heats up. That these young men and women are fighting and dying for them means nothing.
Blame America.
December 22nd, 2006 at 3:31 pm
The Haditha Charges
So the Marine Corps has charged four members of the Haditha Marines with murder. As I said on May 17th: Now if these Marines did in fact murder these innocent people then they should all be hung and quartered. They…